066: Integrating Theology and Psychology in Parenting with Meaghan Hampton

Did you know that much of the advice Christian parents have been taught over the years doesn’t align with what we know about child development?

In this episode, I speak with therapist and author Meaghan Hampton about parenting from a Christian and psychology-informed approach. We address how much of our stories of spiritual trauma are rooted in how we were raised, and why it’s important to explore our past with compassion and curiosity. You will learn about the harm that fundamentalist parenting can cause, how deconstruction from harmful parenting approaches can be a sign of spiritual health, tips on being a more curious and present parent, the value of co-regulation, and more. This is a great episode for anyone interested in learning a parenting approach consistent with the example of Jesus and what children need for healthy development. 

Guest Spotlight ✨ 

Meaghan is a Christian therapist, writer, and parenting educator passionate about integrating faith, psychology, and neuroscience to support families on their journey toward healing and wholeness.

In her clinical work, Meaghan walks alongside children, teens, and adults as they navigate anxiety, trauma, relational wounds, and nervous system dysregulation—always with a trauma-informed and Christ-centered lens.

Outside the counseling room, Meaghan runs the Instagram account @soulcareforfamilies, where she shares grace-filled parenting content that challenges harmful theological messaging and helps parents better understand their children’s emotional and developmental needs. She offers resources that equip caregivers to co-regulate, connect, and disciple with gentleness and clarity.

Website | Instagram 

Links & Resources 🔗

• Resource for Co-regulation
• The Big Feelings Book by Meaghan Hampton | Amazon
• Flourishing Homes and Families Instagram | Amazon
• Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline by Dr. Becky Bailey | Amazon | Bookshop
• The Whole-Brained Child by Dr. Dan Siegel | Amazon | Bookshop
• The Critical Journey by Janet Hagberg and Robert Gulich | Amazon
• The Marriage You Want by Sheila Gregoire | Amazon | Bookshop 

Other Episodes:

• 044: Building A Marriage Based on Mutuality with Sheila Gregoire
   

Episode Transcript 📄

Meaghan Hampton
So I think the foundational piece is learning how to regulate ourselves, especially if we have walked through spiritual abuse, that's going to take a toll on our nervous system. And so being able to show ourselves compassion, because self-compassion is one of the most regulating things that we can offer ourselves. Establishing a felt sense of safety within our bodies is what regulates us in the long term so that we don't get as dysregulated as easily in the future, and that gets stripped of us. When we're in abusive situations or in high control environments. When we establish that sense of safety in ourselves, then we're able to offer that to our kids in the moment that when our kids are screaming and throwing a tantrum, whatever they're doing at age three, yes, is it stressful? Yes, is it inconvenient? But are we safe? Yes. Is our child safe? Yes. And we can offer them that felt sense of safe.

Brian Lee
Hey, friends. Welcome back to the Broken to Beloved Podcast. If you're looking for compassionate conversations and practical resources for recovery from and safeguarding against spiritual abuse, then this is the place for you. I'm your host, Brian Lee. As an ordained pastor and spiritual abuse survivor, I know what it feels like navigating life after spiritual abuse. I also know what it's like to want to prevent anything from happening to the people you know and love. It's why Broken to Beloved exists.

You're enjoying this podcast ad-free because of the generous support of our donors. And we need your help. Support our work by becoming a donor to help make our programs like this podcast possible. Just head to brokentobeloved.org/support or click the link in the show notes.

Today, we're talking with Meaghan Hampton about challenging the harmful ways we were parented or taught to parent with curiosity and compassion. I actually discovered Meaghan through my wife, who started sharing reels with me from her account, @soulcarewithfamilies. We both appreciated the way that she worked to provide grounded, trauma-informed and practical tools for helping to raise our kids differently.

Meaghan is a Christian therapist, writer, and parenting educator passionate about integrating faith, psychology, and neuroscience to support families on their journey toward healing and wholeness. In her clinical work, Meaghan walks alongside children, teens, and adults as they navigate anxiety, trauma, relational wounds, and nervous system dysregulation, always with a trauma-informed and Christ-centered lens. Our Outside the counseling room, Meaghan runs the Instagram account @soulcareforfamilies. This may be a different conversation than we're used to because we're talking about parenting, but I promise you there's something good in here for you as well. And so I would encourage you, whether you are a parent or not, to stick through this one, and I think and hope you will find something helpful.

And now, here's my conversation with our new friend, Meaghan. Meaghan, welcome to the podcast.

Meaghan Hampton
Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.

Brian Lee
I mentioned in the intro, but my wife found you on Instagram first, and then she shared you with me and said, You have to come watch this, girl. Oh, that's so nice. Then we were instantly taken with it. I think what I appreciate is the level-headed, grounded approach that you're taking to parenting and to therapy and to the way that we were brought up in often very fundamentalist circles or churches or environments. Some of us, it was just at home. Some of us, it was at school. Some of it was all of the above. I'm just I'm excited to talk to you.

Meaghan Hampton
Thank you. Thank you so much.

Brian Lee
You write that you're passionate about conversations that reframe children's challenging behaviors, not as sin, but as a reflection of their development, their nervous system, or their skillset. Tell us more about all of that and where that comes from.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, definitely. This is a big passion of mine because when I was going back to graduate school to become a Christian counselor, It started off with a childhood development class, and I was already a mom at this point. I had a one-year-old, maybe a little under one, and then I also had a three-year-old. I remember learning things in this class about attachment and about the nervous system and about parent-child dynamics in general that I had never been exposed to in the past. And I noticed that a lot of it actually contradicted what I was hearing in Christian circles. I've been in some really great Mom's Bible studies or parenting small groups, but I've also been in some that were less than helpful. And I noticed that a lot of what I was learning from these groups or even reading in Christian parenting books did not align with what I was learning about psychology. And so I was so grateful for that class because that really changed the trajectory of what I saw myself doing, at least career-wise, but also in my own personal parenting journey. I really wanted to make that information as accessible as possible to as many people as possible.

That's really what led to me starting my account and beginning to write, is really wanting as many Christian parents as possible to be exposed to this.

Brian Lee
That's great. I love all of that. When was school for you? How long have you been doing this work?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. I have been counseling for about, gosh, I think it's between three and four years. I'm still an associate, and so I think it's closer to three years.

Brian Lee
I think one of the things I appreciate about the counseling world is that they have all of these safeguards in place to let clients know. It's like this is someone who has done their work, this is someone who is continuing to do their work. And yes, there are good counselors and bad counselors, but in large part, there are so many things built into this system that say, Hey, we want to make sure that you're keeping up with these things. We want to make sure that you're learning about the latest thing that is coming out, the latest research being done or paper that's being written. And I just appreciate the depth and the level to which that goes, where I've also had conversations with pastors or denominational leaders who are like, We have nothing like that in place to make sure that our pastors are following these things, or that they have this many hours, or that they're... Another thing with counselors, the specific set of letters after your names talks about your specialty or your area of expertise, where pastors so often dabble in counseling without having any other credential or understanding, which I think is where we got ourselves in so much of the trouble we're in today.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, definitely. Yes, I think that seeking pastoral counseling can be helpful for a very specific group of people. But for the majority of us, I do I think that getting some level of professional guidance to just better understand our stories and the narratives that we believe in, some of our deep-seated beliefs about ourselves in the world It can be really helpful.

Brian Lee
One of the things I appreciate that you say is that you are trying, committed to creating a space for respectful discourses where people can feel safe asking hard questions, especially around spiritual abuse, trauma, and the healing journey that so many parents must walk through in order to love and lead their families well. I said in the intro how this is a different episode because we're talking about parenting, which we don't normally do, but so much of our parenting comes as a reaction to the way that we were parented or brought up ourselves. And so when we can do that work to recognize where and how we were brought up in the environments we were brought up in with the caretakers we had growing up, it can help us so much more to inform how we are dealing with our own kids.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, 100 %. Because what a lot of people don't realize, and what you have alluded to, is the idea that when we become parents, unless someone is doing deep therapeutic work, most of us will either do what our parents did because we, quote, unquote, turned out fine. That's a really fun one. Or even the fine is relative. Or we will take more of a reactionary stance of, we might make a vow to ourself, of what I will never do, what my parents did. Sometimes we can have a tendency to swing a little bit too far. What is really difficult about that reactionary stance is that it comes from a good place, but it's also rooted in fear. Whereas what we want to be able to do is to come to a place of more wholeness, more integration, where we can be more of who God created us to be and learn to listen to our intuition instead of these frameworks that were handed down to us or trying to do the opposite of those frameworks.

Brian Lee
Tell us more about those vows.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. So what we say in psychology, anytime we make a vow to ourself, it is a helpful red flag indicator that there's some areas there that we can begin healing and working through and dialog we're talking about because those vows that we make, those promises to ourself when we're younger, we do that as an effort to keep ourselves safe. So there's so much room for self-compassion as to why those vows were even made in the first place. And so anytime even recognize like, Okay, hey, I made a vow here, that is a place to show our self-compassion because it probably served us for a season. But as we come into more freedom and we come into more of who we are, we We don't have to lean into those vows quite as much, and we are a little bit more free to listen to our gut.

Brian Lee
Can you give us an example of a vow that we make to ourselves that we can eventually work through to release?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, definitely. So one example could be if we felt controlled when we were younger, we may make a vow where we say, Okay, well, I'm never going to be controlled again. And in doing we may have a challenge in connecting well with others. And we come by that so honestly, and we come by that as a means of protecting ourselves with the best that we could during that season. But what we want to do is with the Lord and in therapy is learn a healthier, more middle ground, where we, yes, can spot some of the red flags of control a little bit easier and listen to our gut in those areas, but also open ourselves up to connection with safe people.

Brian Lee
Yeah, that's really helpful. I think you obviously work towards this gospel narrative and the way that it reshapes the way we view ourselves, view our children, view our relationships, And I think for so many people who have experienced spiritual abuse or carry some spiritual trauma, that there is this resistance, which totally makes sense. I think that even is part of the work of recognizing it's like, well, maybe we've made a vow to ourselves that I'm never going to let the church do this to me again, or a pastor do this to me again, or whatever it is, and that it comes from a place of self-protection, that there doesn't need to be shame or guilt heaped on top of it, but it's the compassion of Well, of course, you don't want that to happen again. Look at what happened the first time. Or how do we make decisions to navigate going forward in a more careful or thoughtful way that doesn't just react to everything everything out of a vow that we've made to ourselves. Help us to fine-tune that a little bit.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, definitely. As someone who has personally experienced spiritual abuse myself, I can completely relate to what you're saying, and I have so much compassion for people who are walking through that. I love working with clients who have walked through that and are looking to unpack that a little bit more just because I understand what it's like. It's really It's really unique, and it's really difficult to be hurt by the thing that was supposed to heal us, in a sense, with that message that we're being told. I think that The first part is recognizing that one of the things that made us vulnerable to spiritual abuse in the first place does go back to our childhood. Because if we are growing up in... It could be our family of origin, or we could have a great family, and we grew up in a system, whether it's a school system or a church system, that's unhealthy, and that some of the spiritual abuse or these power dynamics were present, it normalizes these things to us. We may have this gut level inclination as a kid, or maybe not, just because of our age and immaturity, that something's not right here, but we're taught to not trust ourselves, and we're We're taught to look past it and, No, we have to adhere to XYZ doctrine, whatever it is.

We're taught that our intuition is bad, and there's a lot of theological underpindings there that within the context of healing from spiritual abuse, people need to navigate. But I think that it starts by these power dynamics being normalized, these dynamics of control being normalized, so that when we get out into the real world and we have these opportunities to join certain churches or certain organizations, we are less aware of what would be red flags to people who haven't grown up in these systems. And so we're less aware of that, and we consider these dynamics to be more normal. And so then we get involved until eventually, people end up understandably in over their heads. And then we realize, Okay, something's not right. I'm being harmed here, or other people are being harmed, and this is not okay. And then that's usually when the deconstruction process and the healing process begins.

Brian Lee
Yeah. And we've had so many conversations about that deconstruction process, which in itself has become such a weaponized and polarizing word, which is such a shame because it's such a normal process that we all have to go through.

Meaghan Hampton
In this development class, one thing that we learned about was spiritual development. And part of healthy spiritual development is a type of deconstruction. Maybe someone doesn't walk away from the faith entirely, but some level of deconstructing and trying to figure out what if this faith was passed down to me and what if this faith is my own, getting to that level of spiritual development is actually really, really healthy. And so it's something that so many people are understandably afraid of, but we really don't need to be because it's a sign of spiritual health.

Brian Lee
Yeah. I think it's James Fowler, maybe, has his stages of faith. I've talked about that with a couple of other people. And then I've recently read The Critical Journey by by Harkberg and Gullitch, and it's like they've got this whole other thing as well. It's like, at some point, we all hit a wall that we're going to have to work through and take apart, deconstruct all the stuff that we were taught before in order to reconstruct something new out of it. And I think that's what I appreciate about the work that I see you doing online is it is just a day-to-day, moment-to-moment deconstruction of all these fundamentalist ideas that we've been brought up with about the way we discipline our children, about how it's all a sin nature in our kids that we have to break out of them, about patriarchal or hierarchical views of our families or of the systems we're part of. Tell us about why you feel so passionate about doing that work specifically?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, definitely. I think that some of it pertains to my own personal journey, being involved in an organization that was very much rooted in the things that you just mentioned, and seeing these families, and seeing seeing these children being brought up in these systems. It really broke my heart even before I had a language or a framework for understanding it. I remember saying, Oh, this idea of babies being sinful, or babies being little balls of sin, is I think, the exact words that I had heard. It was little bundles of sin. Hearing the term that babies are little bundles of in, or vipers in diapers, or anything like that. I remember when I had my own baby, I remember looking at him and being like, No way. That goes against my gut. That goes against how God has created me as a mother, this something just doesn't sit right with me. And so I think that that's a big part of it is because it places a heavy yoke, not just on the kids, but on the parents and how they are expected to parent. There's so much unnecessary pressure and expectations that are placed on kids and parents alike in these organizations.

I really just want to help free parents up from that heavy yoke and the children as well. Yeah.

Brian Lee
Well, and one of the values that we talk a lot about here is this idea of goodness over wickedness, that we want to hold to a Genesis 1: 2 theology and view of humanity, that we created and that we were called very good. Versus the Genesis 3 version that says, Oh, no, no, no, no, People are walking around saying that, like bundles of sin. It is that. It's like, I go to some of these reformed circles or very patriarchal circles or whatever it is, where that is the view of humanity, including these brand new babies. They talk about it with such endearing voices, and it just makes everything inside me crawl. It's like, no, this is not the way it was supposed to be. And while, yes, we have sin, yes, we commit sin all the time, no, our kids are not perfect, obviously. But it's like, but just even a fundamental shift of the way that we view ourselves and our children of you are a viper versus you are good, you are wicked versus you are good, is going to change the way that we parent, right?

Meaghan Hampton
Oh, 100%, yes. If my toddler throwing a tantrum is an outworking of them being this evil, sinful bundle, then there's going to be so much more pressure for me to to jump that out and to put an end to it, then for me to get curious and to wonder why this is happening. Is it a reflection of where they're at developmentally? Is there a reflection of the co regulation that I'm seeking to offer my child? Is it a reflection of the environment that they're in? It really robs us of our curiosity, and it robs us of our presence. I think that curiosity and presence are really important when we're parenting because that's what builds connection.

Brian Lee
Tell us more about that. Robs us of our presence.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. If we have this, I don't know, a framework that's just handed to us of this is exactly what's going on with your kids, and it's a very narrow framework, then we aren't given the opportunity to ask questions, which is why you had mentioned, I really like to promote thoughtful discourse in my content, because I think that It's really important for us to be curious. And so if we are not given the opportunity to ask questions and even ask questions to ourselves, then we really aren't present in the moment. We're just taking what we've been given and slapping it onto the moment that we're in instead of actually being in the moment that we're in and asking questions about what's going on around this.

Brian Lee
If that's what we're used to doing, is being out of the moment, not being present, and just slapping the same prescription or bandaid on our children's behavior, walk us through when that's been ingrained in us, or it's all we saw our parents do with us, or it's all we're used to doing because we've never been a different way. I mean, your videos do this incredibly and with such a short window for our attention spans. But walk us through a situation. What are the things that we could be thinking about or curious about, or how could we be interacting with our children rather than just going straight to punishment or consequence or something like that.

Meaghan Hampton
I think one place to start is instead of, we've talked a little bit about this idea of our children's temper tantrums or something like that being an outworking of their sin, instead being curious about whether or not they're dysregulated and what's causing their dysregulation, and learning more about childhood development in general. That is actually very, very normal for young children to be dysregulated and to share their big feelings in what looks like a tantrum to us. For us to be able to come alongside them and offer what we would call co-regulation, which is them just borrowing our nervous system, borrowing our presence in a sense of like, Hey, I'm here for you. This is really hard. I know you didn't get that cookie after dinner, or you already did get your cookie, and we're not having our second one or whatever it is. That we can come alongside or can be like, Yeah, that is really hard. Here I am. I'm here with you in that. Really just trying to offer that co-regulation, I think, is probably the most practical way that that could look within the parent-child relationship.

Brian Lee
What are some ways that we can co-regulate with our kids?

Meaghan Hampton
I think the foundational piece is learning how to regulate ourselves. Especially if we have walked through spiritual abuse, that's going to take a toll on our nervous system. Again, it's another opportunity for us to show ourselves self-compassion, that it is going to be more challenging for us to regulate ourselves in certain situations. Being able to show ourselves compassion, because self-compassion is one of the most regulating things that we can offer ourselves. Then from a practical moment-to-moment standpoint, that could be taking deep breaths, that could be some grounding work. I'm a big fan of polyvagal theory, and so I utilize a lot of that with my clients. I think that is a practical in the moment place to start. But ultimately, over time, establishing a felt sense of safety within our bodies is what regulates us in the long term so that we don't get as dysregulated as easily in the future. That widens what we'd call our window of tolerance. And so establishing that felt sense of safety is really integral for us to be able to do. And that gets stripped of us when we're in abusive situations or in high control environments. And so when we establish that sense of safety in ourselves, then we're able to offer that to our kids in the moment that when our kids are screaming and throwing a tantrum, whatever they're doing at age three, yes, is that stressful?

Yes, is it inconvenient? But are we safe? Yes. Is our child safe? Yes. And we can offer them that felt sense of safety.

Brian Lee
Yeah. We were joking before about this idea that, okay, but what about when we as parents are over stimulated ourselves and having a hard time self-regulating, hypothetically speaking, because it doesn't happen every other day. Oh, no, never. Or before every single bedtime. Or like you're saying, when they've already had the first cookie and no, you can't have the other one because I say so, because I'm tired of explaining myself. I love the approach that has compassion rather than just the trying harder and white-knuckling through things. It's like, Will you please just shut up and go to your room and leave me alone because I need some space, too. I think that's one of the things that my wife and I are learning. It's like, there are times that it's okay for us to walk away because we need a moment. It's like the whole the air mask coming down from an airplane, the oxygen mask. It's like, you have to take care of yourself if you want to be able to take care of someone else. So I think whether you are a parent or not, just this idea, it's like having those tools for self-regulating is huge in any relationship because especially when we've experienced that abuse or carry that trauma, we're going to be activated, we're going to be triggered.

So knowing what to do with ourselves when those moments come becomes so important.

Meaghan Hampton
Oh, definitely. Yes. And it's actually a gift to our kids for them to be able to see our humanity and to see how we handle it. If we are just, quote, unquote, perfect all of the time, they're not going to have the opportunity to see what it looks like for self-regulation to be modeled because there's nothing to regulate. I love that you give the example of, Hey, sometimes we do get to the point where it's like, Hey, I need to walk away for a couple of minutes. There have been times in my own parenting journey where I've had to do that, and I just look at my kids and I say, Hey, I'm having a hard time right now. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm going to go take some deep breaths for a couple of minutes in the other room, and I'll be right back. Sometimes that goes better than others, right? But usually it goes pretty well. I think that it gives them the gift of seeing mommy be human and mommy taking responsibility for her own nervous system and her big feelings and how I handle them. Sometimes I do that with them right there.

It's like, Hey, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm going to breathe for a moment. Then they watch me do it. Just being able to see... For kids to see their parents be human and that that's okay.

Brian Lee
Yeah. Well, I appreciate that you mentioned the whole thing about perfection, because it is... I think that pressure is put on us. Oh my gosh, yeah. For those of us that grew up in the '80s and '90s, it's like the perfect household. And now, with Instagram and social media, it's even harder because that's the only face we typically put out there. Just this past Sunday in the service, part of the sermon was the pastor saying, I know that every single one of you is a liar, and I have the proof on my desk because I have a stack of Christmas cards. In it, you are all dressed in identical and everyone is smiling, including the pets, and everything looks so idyllic and wonderful. I can guarantee you that all the other days of the year, you do not look like that and dress that way. Oh, 100%. Just recognizing this public persona that we put on versus the very real lived experience of just being at home with our kids. I appreciate the different ways that it can go. I just need to go in the other room and take a breath. Sometimes they're like, okay, and sometimes they're just clinging to your leg, following you everywhere you go, and you don't get the break.

It's like, again, having the grace and compassion for yourself. It's like, listen, you're trying. You're trying and you're trying to figure it out. I think the other thing that my wife and I were talking about the other day is it's not a takedown, but it is response to a lot of the things that we were taught as kids, whether it's focus on the family or James Dobson or all these other books that we were inundated with. With or that our parents were inundated with while we were growing up. Again, it's not a hot take. It's not just a reaction, but it's a really thoughtful, Hey, here's something that we were taught. Here's some theology that a lot of us were brought up with. And have you considered?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, exactly. And so for people who are looking at my reels, most of them are questions. Most of them are just asking people like, Hey, is it this or have you thought about that? Is it what we've always thought or have you considered this? And exactly what you said, it's not meant to be a hot take as it's meant to be more of a let's go deeper into scripture and into the lived life and ministry of Jesus and see if it aligns with this framework that we've been handed from a lot of Christian parenting teachings throughout the past 20 or 30 years. And see what actually does align with the character of Jesus Christ and what doesn't.

Brian Lee
Yeah. And I caught myself, even as I was asking that question, it's like I almost responded, Well, here's things we've taught, and actually... But you don't do the actually because that is the hot take, and that's the prescription of, Well, you should do it this way instead. But that's what I appreciate about it, is the invitational nature of the questions and the discourse and the curiosity. What are some of the things that you find people tripping up over the most often?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. Most recently, the idea of immediate obedience seems to really trigger people. Yes.

Brian Lee
Tell us about that one.

Meaghan Hampton
I mean, it triggers me. I've been so shocked at how people get so angry about the idea of maybe we don't need to push immediate obedience as much as we do, and that maybe it's not as biblical, quote, unquote, as we think that it is. I think that the main question that I get asked is, well, what if they're running into traffic? And I'm like, I don't know. I play in the street with my kids almost every night. We just yell car. And most of the time they move. I don't know. But immediate obedience is really unrealistic, especially for young children, because their brains are still developing and the parts of their our brains that would allow for immediate obedience without overriding their nervous system, that framework just isn't in place yet. That scaffolding is not there. And so we need to be able to align our expectations with the growth of our children over time. I think another big one, even more so than immediate obedience is spanking. That's been a big one that I think was pretty normalized in the '80s and '90s, and Christians and psychologists are really beginning to push back a little bit more on that.

So I think those are probably two of the most popular ones.

Brian Lee
So let's start with the immediate obedience one. So developmentally, our kids' brains can't even do it, is what I'm hearing. So how do we understand that differently? What is appropriate at what age level? And then what can we expect from our kids at those different age levels?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. So one thing I should probably clarify, we can force our kids to be immediately obedient. It will just override their nervous system. If we want our kids to have healthy nervous systems, because I get a lot of feedback of like, Well, my kids listen the first time, every time with a happy heart. I'm like, Well, yeah. I'm curious what their nervous is going to look like when they're 30. What my husband and I talk a lot about is the idea of... He was a college athlete. We talk a lot about marathon parenting versus 5K parenting of having a long term vision for our kids instead of just immediate compliance. Right now, our kids are pretty much governed by a lot of subconscious processes throughout the ages, almost all the way up until seven. And that can vary, again, from kid to kid. It's not this cut and dry line. I think it depends on maturity. I think it depends on neurodivergent. I think it depends on a lot of different things that are a lot of different variables, if you will. But in general, I would say that if we are connecting well with our kids, we can see individually when our kids are able to comply more easily and when it is more challenging for them.

I think the two main foundations that that is built on is that trust. Do I trust mommy and daddy? When that trust is there, that transition, again, unless there's some of these other variables, that transition comes naturally as they get older. I think the main thing is connection and trust.

Brian Lee
I would think that connection, trust, and I think you mentioned earlier the sense of safety. It's like, is this a safe place to do all the things? Do I feel connected enough to my caregiver to do what they're asking me to do? And do I trust them to ask me to do the right thing? When you said at the beginning about these, Oh, my kid does obey the first time, and they do it with a happy heart, it's like, shiny happy people, IBLP, that whole thing. It's like that whole blanket discipline thing. It's like, well, you put your kid on a blanket when they're a baby, and if they try to grab the toy, you hit their hand. It trains them to not... It's like, there is so much abuse. I'm just going to call it abuse. There's so much abuse that's happening when we raise our kids that way, that sure, at the age of 10, 12, 13, they look like they are obeying you the first time, and they are, but it's not out of love or it's out of fear for being hurt by the person who was supposed to take care of them.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, 100 %. And going back to that, The idea of safety that you're talking about, it's actually not a bad thing when we see our young children pushing back on us because it means that they are safe enough to explore what their boundaries are. From a developmental perspective, that's healthy. There's just so much room for rich connection in those moments. As a parent, is it tough? Yeah, definitely. I don't want to sugarcoat it. Those moments can be really tough, but it means that our kids are safe enough to explore and safe enough to express. It's also something to be celebrated.

Brian Lee
I think that can be really helpful for everybody here. Every once in a while, when my wife and I are having a lucid moment of like, Oh, actually, we're doing okay, we will recognize that a moment of outright rebellion or disobedience or whatever the issue of the day is, we're reminded, it's like, he's doing it because he feels safe enough to do that. Let's be okay with it today, versus the flying off the handle version of like, Why can't you just please this one time? Do what I said when I said it. I think, again, that It goes back to us being regulated and us doing our own work to recognize when something is personal or not personal. Most of the time, I think, with our kids, it's not personal. We're just taking it that way because we're not processing clearly.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. Oh, definitely. I think that there's been a lot of teachings within these communities that we're talking about that teach us that our children's behavior is a reflection of us as parents. That's, again, It's such a heavy yoke. That is so much pressure. In its entirety, it's not true. There is a very small piece of the puzzle that, yes, that parts of that are true, but it's a much bigger picture than that. It's really more about temperament and the environment that they're in and their developmental stage that they're walking through and challenges that they're going through at school. It's so much more nuanced than I think we've been told. I also think, again, that goes back to some of the spiritual abuse stuff that we're talking about. When we are traumatized, we want a black and white, Tell me what to do, because I've been taught not to trust myself. If you just black and white, tell me what to do? If you just give me this script, then I don't need to grow the self-trust muscles. Whereas what we really want to do is learn to trust who God created us to the Holy spirit within us, our God-given intuition, where we can learn to, instead of perform on behalf of our kids, we can actually connect with them.

Brian Lee
That's good. I'm thinking about co-parenting. Yeah. And how so many of these environments also have trained us and taught us that mom is the one who stays home with the kids and that anything else is aberrant behavior or is not living up to, What the Bible teaches or all of these things. And I love that you say, I forget which post it is, but just, If the gospel isn't good news for women, it isn't the gospel. And there has either been too much denied to them or not enough given. And so for families who may be living with this dynamic, what are the questions that we can be curious about that move us toward a full gospel for all of us and for all of our children that, yes, they can be treated differently because all of our kids are unique and different, and yet the gospel applies to them fully as well. And so how do we live that out in houses that feel unbalanced? Or I don't know what words I'm looking for, but I think you know what I mean.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. So in houses that might feel a little bit more unbalanced and not necessarily living into. Maybe the gift set that God has given them, it is challenging. For some women and for some men, staying home full-time is truly what they feel called to. It's what they dreamed about since they were kids. That's what they it's really what they truly want, and they're gifted in that area. And then there are also lots of other people, men and women alike, who have additional callings outside of the home. And so I think that regardless of who's home and who's not, or if both parents are working outside of the home, regardless of that dynamic, I think it's just important to remember that we want to live into the callings that God has given us, and to really ask ourselves, am I being fulfilled, do I feel like I'm using the gift sets that God has blessed me with? And that's the working side of things. And then the at home side of things is, are both parents involved in in building relationships with their children and involved in the parenting journey? Because I do work with clients, a lot of women who are working outside of the home, and then they come home, and the majority of the home responsibility still fall on them.

That is so much pressure. It's so exhausting. Being able to have those open conversations with your spouse over time, because things are never going to change overnight, but both parties being able to be curious of like, Hey, what did I expect going into this and building a family? What did you expect? What did you see modeled for you? What did I see modeled for me? And how can we form our own family that feels that it glorifies God for how he's created us as a family unit?

Brian Lee
That's good. I think just questioning those assumptions that we bring with us, never having asked them, but just assumed because it's the way that we were brought up or because the way our family of origin was is super helpful. I'm thinking about The Marriage You Want by Sheila Gregoire and her husband, Keith, that they wrote is super helpful. Just there's a whole chapter on mental load that usually one parent will carry, and usually it's the mom or the wife. It's all the mental things that she's coming about managing the household that husbands, dads, and other partners are just not even thinking about. It's like, Have you ever considered what it's like to verbalize the mental load that you carry? And it's like, What would it look like to help you with that? Or what would it look like to get the kids stuff together? There's a great episode of Bluey. I remember watching recently, where Bandit takes the kids to the pool, and he's like, He takes nothing with them except him and the kids. And they get in, it's like, Oh, well, do I have my sunscreen? Oh, well, no. And the whole thing is like, at the beginning of the episode, mom's the boring one because she makes them do boring things like brush their teeth.

And it's like, did we bring the floaties? Did we bring this? Did we bring our toy? Is there shade? No, no, no, no, no. Then finally, she shows up at the end with everything. It's like, the boring stuff is the good stuff. We need it. And that's the mental load I'm thinking about. It doesn't have to be in balance. It doesn't have to be the way that we were taught or brought up when we are allowed, like you're saying, to ask these compassionate questions or be thoughtful about the way that we choose to parent or create our own families. I'm just really grateful.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. Because exactly like you're saying, we can't get curious if we just take these imprints that were handed down to us. The imprints aren't necessarily bad, depending on what family you come from. But just being able to know that we can form our own family here. Yes, and so many good life lessons from Louis.

Brian Lee
Yeah. So many good ones. You have a resource on co-regulation. Tell us about that and where people can find it.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. It's It's a really short, devotional type resource on co-regulation that teaches some of the basics of what you would learn in a graduate program, a childhood development class of like, Hey, what is co-regulation? Where do I even start? It just lays a really nice foundation. I'm working on a resource to build on top of that about regulating our own nervous systems as parents. Awesome. Because we can't co-regulate with our kids if we can't regulate ourselves. And this one's going to be way more detailed and way more in-depth and very practical boots on the ground type approach. And so I think that that will also be a really helpful resource for parents as well.

Brian Lee
Yeah. And are those available on your website?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. They are in the link in my bio on my Instagram account.

Brian Lee
Perfect. I know a lot of parents who are constantly reading books on parenting because they want to be better parents, right? Do you Do you have any favorite resources that you've found?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, I do. I'm currently doing the Flourishing Homes and Families workbook with my small group at church. That's been a really beautiful resource. Anything by Dr. Becky Bailey really is incredible. Anything by Dan Siegel, The Whole Brain Child is probably one of the first resources that got me to dip my toe into this world before I even became a therapist.

Brian Lee
Great. You also have a children's book, and you're currently writing a book. Is that right?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. So I have a children's book available on Amazon. It's called The Big Feelings Book. And basically, it is a really simple sing-songy book for young children to help them learn to identify their feelings and how to regulate their feelings, primarily through co-regulation. And so through the story and the illustration, encouraging kids to go to their parents with their big feelings while also finding some other regulation strategies as well, but laying that foundation for emotional regulation of just being able to name their feelings and go to mom or dad with them.

Brian Lee
Yeah, that's going to be great. Meaghan, if people want to find you, where do they go?

Meaghan Hampton
Yes. My handle on Instagram is @soulcareforfamilies, and I also am a therapist in Friendswood, Texas, at Counseling Futures. Those are the main places that people can reach out to me. And then I'm also writing a book with my former professor who actually taught that childhood development class that I mentioned in the beginning of the podcast. Him and I are writing a parenting book together that helps integrate both theology and psychology because we're both big believers that the Bible backs up good science and good science backs up the Bible. So we're just trying to equip Christians who may be apprehensive to pick up a secular book with psychologically informed resources for raising their kids.

Brian Lee
Awesome. Well, people will just have to follow you to find out and keep up.

Meaghan Hampton
Yes, definitely.

Brian Lee
So everyone, go follow Meaghan @soulcareforfamilies on Instagram. We will have links for all of the books and all of the resources and the co-regulation piece in the show notes. Meaghan, thank you so much for taking time with us today.

Meaghan Hampton
Thank you so much, Brian. It was so much fun.

Brian Lee
What a helpful conversation. If you enjoyed it as much as I did, be sure to follow Meaghan and say thanks for being on the show. You can find links and all the things in the show notes.

Coming up on the show, we have Ben Cremer, Katherine Spearing, Dr. Arielle Schwartz, and so many more. Next time, we'll be talking with Rachel Clinton Chen about her work with the Allender Center, and specifically about spiritual abuse and story work. Subscribe or follow the show to get new episodes automatically. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review or share with your friends. It really helps us to grow and continue providing quality content for you.

And thank you to everyone who makes this show possible through their financial support. We truly couldn't do this work without you. Consider a donation today at the link in the show notes. This episode was hosted and executive-produced by me, Brian Lee. Editing by Heidi Critz and post-production by Lisa Carnegis.

Thanks for taking the time out of your day to listen. I hope it's been helpful. Here's to moving toward healing and wholeness. Together. I'll see you next time.